Éirígí Interview With Polish Pro-Choice Activists In Anticipation Of Repeal Referendum
Czarny (black) protesters
In anticipation of the forthcoming referendum to Repeal the Eight Amendment, our activists visited Poland, a country with regressive laws regarding bodily autonomy similar to Ireland, albeit less stringent. Observing the situation regarding abortion rights as it is at present in Poland, our activists heard from Polish political activists who are currently combatting attempts by the right-wing Polish government to repeal already strict abortion legislation, in favour of a ban on abortion rights altogether.
The following interview with Paulina Slusarczyk and Adam Szczepański was conducted by Éirígí activist Gearoid Ó Muireadhaigh. Slusarczyk and Szczepański are activists with Razem. Partia Razem (Together Party) are a Democratic Socialist, pro-choice political party. In 2016 Razem were central to mass protests (called the Black Protest) against a bill that would impose a complete ban on abortion, proposed by a reactionary ‘citizens' initiative’.
GÓM: Paulina would you be able to give a quick description of abortion law in Poland as it is today, in what circumstances is abortion allowed in Poland?
PS: It is only legal in three cases, I think it is the same as in Ireland. Which would be fatal foetal abnormalities, if the mother’s life is in danger, or if the pregnancy is as a result of rape or incest. Basically, it is allowed only in those three cases, there is no economic or social reason, it’s not allowed.
GÓM: Adam what has been the role of the Catholic Church in influencing abortion legislation over the last 25 years?
AS: Formerly there was not an influence from the church itself, however there was a lot of lobbying from conservative Catholic activists of political parties in parliament. They lobbied parties that were linked to the Catholic Church including former Communist MP’s, the parties embraced this because they wanted to ‘bring themselves’ in to the nation let’s say. That’s why every single president of Poland wanted to have a visit from Pope John Paul II for instance. Another huge thing to mention is our accession to the European Union, we joined the EU in 2004 during the rule of Sojusz Lewicy Demokratycznej (Democratic Left Alliance), they had a deal with the Catholic Church. The Church supported the campaign for a yes vote in the referendum to join the EU, in return the government promised it wouldn’t alter the abortion laws. This was a big factor in cementing down the abortion laws that we have today. That was the main role of Catholic Church in influencing abortion legislation because it was the most important, it was the most significant moment, back then the government was frightened if they altered the abortion law that the Catholic Church would say no to European Union membership.
PS: Also, the most important influence from the church nowadays is the teaching of religion in schools, which is practically obligatory because very often the schedule would be put together in such a way that kids cannot get out of school when the religion class starts. The children are forced to be there and there is a social stigma attached if you don’t attend the classes. There is also huge societal pressure to be at those lessons, to do the first communion and confirmation, some people only do this because other people are doing it. A lot of people go to religion classes without really needing to go to them, and what happens there is that very often really aggressive anti-abortion propaganda is shown. Have you heard of the movie ‘Silent Scream’?
GÓM: I haven’t, in Ireland sex education and religion for the most part is kept separate. That has been my experience of it anyway.
PS: Well it’s an American anti-abortion movie that was ruled to be full of lies and other misinformation, there is actually a court ruling saying that it is inaccurate, its medically inaccurate. It is very, very aggressive anti-abortion propaganda, in it they show a foetus the size of a fully-grown baby, which was quite obviously a dummy. So, they show this blatant misinformation in religion classes in Poland to very, very young kids who get really disturbed by the content. But the point is that we have had this system for 25 years now, people have gotten really influenced by the language that the religion teachers use; a lot of people talk about abortion saying ‘it’s a baby, you are killing babies’, and this use of language has really gone a long way. A lot of people have been raised in this system, so people like me I am 25, I don’t know anything else from school.
GÓM: In October 2016 Razem were instrumental in organising the ‘Black Protest’ in support of a woman’s right to choose, why was this protest called?
PS: Well, this anti-abortion group called Fundacji pro-prawo do zyciathey (the Pro-life Foundation) collected 100,000 signatures under a ‘Citizen petition’, meaning a debate in the Sejm (Polish parliament) on a draft law that would restrict the right to abortion to only when the mother’s life is endangered; this would have been the only case under this law where abortion access would be allowed. They succeeded in collecting the signatures, they presented it to the government and then the government were seen to be supporting it, so this is where the campaign started. We began the campaign with this hashtag #czarnyprotest (Czarny means black in Polish), people started taking selfies in black clothes in the beginning, and then it spread and spread and spread. It kind of developed in to a series of protests and very, very large protests at that. It then evolved into a women’s strike, similar to what happened in Iceland in the 1970’s when the women there went on strike seeking an end to the gender pay-gap.
Pro-choice protesters in Gdansk
AS: The first protests on the street in happened in September, in one of those protests in Wroclaw there was a wide consensus among some of the striking women that something more needed to be done. That was when one of the striking women ordered everyone to ‘have a strike in two weeks’ time’ so it was beginning of October when it properly started.
PS: But what is important is in this whole story is that the politicians basically, I don’t want to say retracted but they stopped supporting the bill after all the protests had happened.
GÓM: The protests seemed to have had the desired effect in that case! What tactics were used in the Black Protest?
PS: It developed from a large social media campaign to a I suppose to say a classic protest. There was a phase during this protest where people called for a genuine general strike, the plan was for people to leave their workplaces, and some did but not everyone. I think it was mainly just protesting on the street more than anything else.
AS: Yes, mainly just protesting on the street, it wasn’t a basic strike as we’ve experienced or might expect from the likes of a Trade Union. The strikers were not only women but people in general, some took a holiday from work for this one day, so it wasn’t a normal strike. You’d have one day off and then you’d be working later, or the next day.
PS: Yes, obviously a conventional strike is supposed to be painful for public infrastructure or business, but this was not the reason for calling the strike, this was a show of opposition. Strikes rarely happen over here, we are generally not very good at striking in Poland.
AS: Yes, this is a result of the weak trade unions over here in Poland, but that’s another story.
GÓM: How did the state react to these actions?
PS: They basically gave up after this wave of protests, but of course during them there was a lot of patronising remarks from cabinet ministers and other MP’s. A lot of right-wing politicians tried to spin it as if it was the government opposition who had ordered the women onto the streets, like it was not an autonomous decision, they tried to kind of demean the protest.
AS: It was one step back for them but didn’t really do anything in response.
PS: Yes, they never said anything about not supporting the bill anymore, they kind of just stopped talking about it altogether. They did this for political reasons obviously, they were trying to save face after the embarrassment of the defeated bill.
AS: The current government, despite the power of the right-wing, they are afraid of the topic.
PS: They think they might be going one step too far.
AS: And they’re scared about that.
GÓM: What are the Polish government doing at present to further restrict abortion rights, what are they trying to do right now?
PS: It’s the exact same situation as two years ago! There is another citizens draft that is being proposed, the government maybe didn’t support this one as warmly the last one, but they still sent it to be debated in the Parliament. It has always been that there is one very restrictive draft and there is one liberal draft. The parliament preceded with both drafts at the same seating, they presented a draft that would liberalise abortion completely, and then they presented the one that was completely restrictive. They only passed the restrictive one and the other one didn’t even get accepted for comment in the commission, it is basically the same story as it has always been.
GÓM: Are there any figures for how many Polish women travel abroad to obtain abortion services?
PS: Nobody knows exactly, but there was one estimate that was released last year, it put the figure at over 100,000 women, but just to emphasise it is only an estimate.
GÓM: Over in Ireland there is significant support among the populace for the liberalisation of the regressive abortion legislation. What percentage of the Polish population are in favour of liberalising Poland’s abortion laws and what percentage are against?
PS: There was a poll on levels of support for liberalisation of the legislation not too long ago, it was 40% in favour of liberalisation, 40% in favour of the compromise (current situation), and 20% for more restrictive laws. These figures are not precise though.
GÓM: Where do you see the fight for abortion rights in Poland going in the future?
AS: I fear that the so-called ‘compromise’ (current laws) will still be going on, because even if the current government is changed after the next election, there would still be right-wing, regressive, conservative parties in government, they are currently in opposition. There is unfortunately no chance of a left-wing government forming, the main parliamentary parties are all conservative and they all support the so-called ‘compromise’.
PS: I think either that situation will happen or maybe we’re somehow now at a peak where we might go upwards, society looks on abortion more and more favourably. More people support liberalisation, it is supported more and more by politicians outside parliament, but I think maybe there might be some social change that will emerge from the grassroots; or maybe we will be stuck in this current ‘compromise’ as Adam has said, but I’m not very good at political predictions, I think it might go either way.
AS: Everything is possible to be honest. Even the current draft banning abortion entirely. I hope the current government does not do that, I hope they put it into the parliamentary commission and freeze the act.
PS: Yes, I hope they don’t get it through, they might be reluctant to approve it, they know it’s a very uncomfortable topic and an uncomfortable draft for them. They’re trying to save face and not lose votes by approving it or by refusing it completely, they want to do this by freezing the draft in the commission, then they’ll just stop working on it, it looks a lot better for the PR if they approach it in this way. The fight for abortion rights won’t stop until those rights are won back.